Swiss newspaper interview

This is a slightly edited English translation of my interview (paywall) with the Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ), a leading Swiss newspaper, published on 7 October. The interviewers were Thomas Ribi and Lucien Scherrer. It is republished with permission.

NZZ: A year ago, Hamas terrorists attacked Israel, killing people and taking them hostage, and raping women. How did you experience the attack?

Ben-Ami: I was in London and heard about it on the radio, on the seven o'clock news. I immediately switched to an Israeli channel on the internet, and it was clear to me: this was a war. I contacted my family, most of whom live in Israel. We tried every possible way to find out how everyone was doing and whether they were safe. It was terrible.

NZZ: After the war, there was some sympathy for Israel in the West but above all a lot of solidarity with the Palestinians. And anti-Semitism flared up again. Did you expect that?

Ben-Ami: I wasn't surprised. The pattern has been evident for a long time. In recent years, there has been an increase in anti-Semitism after every conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. After a certain period of time, it then flattens out again and settles at a higher level. It was like that after the May 2021 conflict. But it was nowhere near the extent of what happened after 7 October.

NZZ: In London, where you live, there were mass demonstrations with 300,000 participants, some of whom chanted Islamist and anti-Semitic slogans. Orthodox Jews wearing kippahs (skullcaps) were attacked on the street. How safe do you feel in the city?

Ben-Ami: I feel safe on the streets. I don't wear a kippah so I'm not recognisable as a Jew. But I was an observer at anti-Israel demonstrations and also attended counter-demonstrations. At the latter I was openly threatened with violence. At first they made gestures like this (running a finger across the throat). Now they form a triangle with their fingers. That's a clear threat, the sign of Hamas. And then they yell at you that you are a “child murderer” and a “genocide supporter”. Not all the participants are like that but it's not a small minority either. And nobody stops them.

NZZ: You are seeing an increase in anti-Semitism. But hasn't something fundamental changed since 7 October?

Ben-Ami: Yes, I think so too. In America and Europe, open anti-Semitism is becoming more and more acceptable. It has always been widespread in the Middle East but in Europe being anti-Semitic was unacceptable after the second world war, except on the far right. Since 7 October, anti-Semitism has become more open, even if it often disguises itself as criticism of Israel. And it is not pro-Palestinian but pro-Hamas. That is something completely different.

NZZ: Many people justify their rejection of Israel by saying that the Israeli army has overreacted. Isn't that understandable in view of the tens of thousands of dead in Gaza?

Ben-Ami: I think the reactions in the West are related to the fact that two factors come together. On the one hand, the rise of Islamism as a political movement in the West. This is partly the result of recent migration from the Middle East and Africa, Muslims have come to the West who are anti-Semitic. They help shape the climate, in Germany, in England and elsewhere. These people have far fewer inhibitions about openly expressing their anti-Semitism. The second factor is that the intellectual background of the debates has changed: through the rise of identity politics, critical race theory and post-colonialism. The central idea here is that there is a hierarchy of oppression. That whites are per se seen as privileged – and that Jews are viewed as particularly privileged. The war in Gaza was the catalyst that triggered all of this. But it was already in the works and now serves as an argument to justify anti-Semitic positions.

NZZ: Anti-Semitism is not a new problem on the left. There was Stalinist anti-Semitism, the anti-Semitism of the 1968ers. The new left was already talking about genocide in Palestine in the 1970s.

Ben-Ami: That's true but a shift has taken place. After the Six-Day War in 1967, anti-Semitism became more and more important. But I think that since 2023 we have reached a new point: it has become acceptable not only to criticise Israel but also to say that there is a fundamental problem with Jews.

NZZ: You are an economics writer, have worked as an economic journalist and written books on economic topics. What prompted you to address anti-Semitism in your writing?

Ben-Ami: I was interested in the Middle East from an early age. When I was less than seven-years-old, in June 1967, the Six-Day War broke out. My father and our friends were very excited. I didn't really understand what it was about at the time, but I started to follow developments closely. In the 1980s I wrote my first texts for various specialist publications.

NZZ: Today you run a website called “The Radicalism of Fools”. What inspired you to do that?

Ben-Ami: The title is a variation on a quote usually attributed to August Bebel, one of the founders of Germany’s Social Democratic Party in the 19th century. He called anti-Semitism “the socialism of fools”. Some socialists saw the Jews as the epitome of capitalism. They blamed all the problems that existed on the Jews. I took that on board because there are still many people today who think that way. I don't want to talk about socialism but about radicalism more broadly. And about the world view that lies behind it.

NZZ: What does that look like?

Ben-Ami: For these people, the world is clearly divided into good and evil. For them, the Jews are the personification of evil. And that can exist in several forms. It can be capitalism, which they are hostile to, the financial world, which they mistrust, imperialism, colonialism, whatever. They see Jews behind all of it. That is the essence of anti-Semitism. I am trying to better understand this phenomenon and to refute it.

NZZ: Can you use arguments to fight conspiracy theories?

Ben-Ami: It's more than just conspiracy theories. It's a way of seeing people, of seeing Jews.

NZZ: The Jews as scapegoats...

Ben-Ami: No, I wouldn't call it scapegoating. That implies they are cynically blaming Jews for social problems. But for anti-Semites, evil is in the nature of Jews. Jews in their view are the personification of evil.

NZZ: This can be traced back over the centuries. Where does this hatred come from?

Ben-Ami: Hatred of Jews is centuries old, that's true. But the anti-Semitism that we are dealing with today is something that, in my opinion, only emerged in the 19th century. With the modern racial theories that wanted to show that Jews are inherently different. They were not seen as people with a different religion, but as a different kind of people, who were met with hatred. This was also a reaction to the emancipation of the Jews since the late 18th century, which integrated Jews more into society.

NZZ: And why is it flaring up again in the 21st century?

Ben-Ami: I think it's related to the fact that we live in a very depoliticised climate...

NZZ:  . . depoliticised? At the moment, everything seems to be becoming politicised.

Ben-Ami: Yes, many people have become complacent. Instead of thinking about what is going on politically, what is going wrong and how to change it, they see a world in terms of a simple binary between good and evil. And suddenly everything appears very simple. Such people don't want to grapple with complexity, they want one that is easy to understand. That's what I mean by apolitical.

NZZ: Among those who propagate these simplistic black-and-white explanations, there are many intellectuals. The pro-Palestinian protests were concentrated in the universities. A contradiction?

Ben-Ami: It was not the universities in general where the protests flared up. It was the elite universities: Columbia, Harvard, Pennsylvania, the Ivy League universities. There were hardly any protests at mainstream universities and community colleges. This is not surprising, because the important exponents of critical race theory and postcolonial thought teach at the elite institutions. The students were steeped in it.

NZZ: In the media, there is a tendency to trivialise fanatics like [the late Hizbullah leader] Hassan Nasrallah. The New York Times, for example, wrote that Nasrallah had propagated a state in which Muslims, Jews and Christians would have equal rights. How do you explain this naivety?

Ben-Ami: Journalists who write such things are often steeped in identity politics. For them, Israel is the oppressor, and Hizbullah and Hamas represent the oppressed. I don't understand why some journalists don't even bother to find out about the ideology of these organizations. They openly say what they want. The founding charter of Hamas is a call to kill Jews and destroy Israel. Nasrallah argued along similar lines.

NZZ: The conflict in the Middle East has escalated in recent days, and everything points to a major war. Is there still hope for peace?

Ben-Ami: It is regrettable, but I see no solution in the short or medium term. There will be no peace as long as the Islamist movements Hamas and Hizbullah exist. My main hope is that there will be a popular uprising in Iran. Iran plays a key role in this conflict. If the regime of the mullahs were destabilised and overthrown it could make a huge difference.

NZZ: There is a theory that Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, needs the conflict to stay in power. And that's why he's letting so many people die. What do you think of this theory?

Ben-Ami: I am familiar with this argument but I don't find it convincing. I don't have a vote in Israel and I don't support any particular party but I do think that the primary concern is Israel's survival and future. Netanyahu has made huge mistakes. He allowed Hamas to expand before 7 October and he underestimated what they would do or what they were capable of doing.

NZZ: Netanyahu is only in power thanks to a coalition with religious fundamentalists who want to wipe out Palestinians. Is it not understandable, then, when some people equate the Israeli government and Hamas?

Ben-Ami: There are extreme forces in the Israeli government, no question about it. They say things that must be condemned. But I don't believe that there is a moral equivalence between Hamas and Israel. Hamas wants to kill Jews, it wants to destroy Israel. That is the core of its doctrine. Such ideas are not central to the Zionist movement, nor are they the prevailing opinion in Israel.